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Sharon: our next guest is a cyber security expert he's been in the industry for 20 years he's worked with the FBI with the

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Toronto police cyber task force he's an educator he has trained CEOs in Fortune 500 companies as well as students in a

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classroom he's a best-selling author he's a public speaker he's done plenty of media appearances and I see him right

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there let's go get him

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hey need a ride 

Danny: oh my God perfect timing 

Sharon: come on in hey Danny P

Danny:  how you Sharon

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I'm good how are you thank you for picking me up 

Sharon: it's my pleasure you ready to go on a little road trip 

Danny: always

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Sharon: Alright, let's do it it’s a finish the sentence question all right if privacy was like a fish what would privacy be 

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Danny: privacy would be something that we claim we love as a society like

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a lot of people may say you know we love the oceans we love the we love animals we love fish but we don't always act like that but we certainly don't act

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like that with all the polluting we do of it so I think with privacy I think we claim that we want privacy and we claim

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that privacy is very important to it but my God the things that I see people do online and the things that I see people

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give away online by clicking some some contract that they haven't read where they're literally signing away everything we don't act like it 

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Sharon: spoken like a true consultant finding an answer to something that is very difficult to answer speaking of fish you want to hear

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something really funny 

Danny: yeah let's hear it

Sharon:  all right so the reason why we hiccup is because fish close their

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gills to prevent water from going into their lungs  and because of our

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ancestry path the reason why we hiccup is because of the reflexes that we picked up as fish when we had to close

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our gills and so if you want to stop hiccuping Danny do you know what the trick is 

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Danny: go in water 

Sharon: no you have to remind yourself that you're not a

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fish not only that you have to believe that you're not a fish it's not enough to say I'm not a fish y

Danny: ou you really

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have to concentrate like I'm not a fish I'm not a f and then the hiccuping will stop 

Sharon: it 100% will stop and I've tested this and it's true try it next time

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I swear it works so Danny you've worked with the FBI 

Danny: yes 

Sharon: you've collaborated with the FBI okay how does

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a company protect its data like the FBI 

Danny: well the funny thing is is actually there's a lot of similarities to to

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mistakes that happen with the FBI uh also that have happened with the CIA right um that everyday people and

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everyday organizations do uh I think one of the best cases happened uh with the with the CIA arguably the most secure

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organization in the world; uh these guys were hacked and and when you hear of something like that happening you probably start thinking of some sort of

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quantum Computing supervirus.  How does somebody take the likes of the CIA or the FBI down they must have used the technology that we currently do not have.

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Defences for right but no it's was nothing like that later a Discovery task force uh learned that the employees that were taken down that fell for the

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scheme were woefully lacksed when it came to a cybersecurity mindset so I don't care if you work for the FBI or if you work

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for the CIA if you are not concentrating and you get too comfortable right this is when the bad guys win cuz the bad guys are out there and they're constantly trying 

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Sharon: having worked with the FBI Danny do aliens exist

Danny: you know what I'm not at

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Liberty to say if I told you we'd have to you know things would get ugly so I can't say right 

Sharon: so I'll take it as a yes

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Danny: but don't go to Area 51 

Sharon: right um someone told me that your

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favorite road trip snack

Danny: oh you're good you're good 

Sharon: baby Bell 

Danny: baby bell ,you can't go wrong

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with baby Bell cheese it's small it packs a punch it tastes good um and they're they're fun to to take off the red packaging well you know what

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here I could peel this one and then I could peel that one and 

Sharon: can can we share baby bell  like I mean eat eat it together

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not not actually share one now do you usually eat it with a cracker or just

Danny:  I eat it straight take my baby bells the

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way I take my vodka straight right

Sharon: so finish did you just have a bite I 

Danny: oh was was I supposed to wait for you

Sharon: yes 

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you're supposed to Cheers 

Danny: Cheers 

Sharon: cheers rude yeah 

Danny: once it's open it doesn't last long with me

Sharon: so Danny finish the

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sentence baby Bell it's like privacy because 

Danny: because it's wrapped up in a

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tight package so it does come secure but that security is easily unraveled if you're not careful

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Sharon: oh oh it's good I guess you can also have bad quality privacy right 

Danny: that's what I'm saying you can have it can be

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it can be seemingly secure but it can unravel very quickly you know what you need to contact Baby Bell and get them to sponsor this right 

Sharon: we should look at

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baby Bell's privacy policy

Danny:  the first risk when companies don't realize how valuable their data is yeah the second risk is is when um uh people are

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creating that Culture of Fear and they're not empowering employees to talk about when there's a problem I think probably one of the the most infamous

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examples of an organization not acting quickly when something was wrong and information was breached was what

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happened with Uber so so Uber suffered a breach and the bad guys um you know they they stole the $100,000 and information

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money what have you Uber was very embarrassed about this and they're like we're just not going to tell anybody the problem is of course as you know is it's

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not that simple you can't just pretend it didn't happen right there's regulations there's laws there's a bunch of things that need to happen when certain things are breached and

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eventually this stuff always comes out right never stays hidden forever and so so because of that they were hit with a fine do you remember what that fine was what that they were hit with 

Sharon: no no I

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Don't

Danny:  okay take a quick guess 

Sharon: okay so let's think about this so we're talking about

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probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of people who were impacted by the breach uh the fact that they did not

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report it uh would probably increase the fine as well so let's

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say 5 million 

Danny: definitely much better than what most people answer it was $148 Million

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okay $148 million so it's definitely a risk when you try to empower employees

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by fear because how much better would that have fine been um if they if they acted on it properly and if if people

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weren't afraid of being embarrassed the the fact of the matter is the bad guys already want us to be embarrassed so when our employers are telling us you

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know you need to be embarrassed or you should be embarrassed or you're going to be fired or sometimes even even not even to that extent maybe it's not a question of being threatened to be fired but

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maybe it's a question of even creating a culture of victim shaming right look at these idiots I can't believe they fell for that every time we say something

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like that we are inadvertently sending out a message that if this happens to you you better not tell me but we need them to be able to talk about it and then the third risk I would say is is

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when people think that these sorts of conversations are only for the executive team everyone is a weak point within the company right employees a lot of times

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where the criminals what they'll do is they might breach someone that is an executive or they might pretend they're an executive but they might breach

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somebody a little bit lower level and they'll use that person to create a domino effect that leads to a breach anyone that has access to that data they

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need to be involved in this training they need to be involved in this information it can't just be Executives or it can't just be certain higher ups 

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right and the myth is is when someone says why would somebody target me right that's that's probably one of the

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biggest barriers that I have before I give anyone any tips you know before I talk about the dos and the don'ts I really need to lay the groundwork for

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that because if I don't um the the all the dos and don'ts in the world aren't going to make a difference Sharon: I find that so interesting and I also talk a lot

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about that with my clients who very similarly say the same thing to me oh you know we're not a massive bank and

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we're not a Google or a Facebook why would anyone want to hack us but the truth is is that yes they're not as big

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but they also don't have the team to develop an incredible safe infrastructure to protect the data and

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that's exactly why they such a great Target right they don't have to collect as much information the data doesn't

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even have to be all that sensitive but the fact that they're so easy to Target makes them a number one target 

Danny: 100% the

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other myth would be uh when somebody says hey make sure we train just the executives and I hear so many organizations still to this day they'll

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they'll say we're doing something but we're only doing something for the top brass right again it doesn't make any sense to me let's talk to the people

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that may not understand this and may not appreciate this the most right what are the targets that are ideal well obviously they're the big ones we talked about that but what's the next one the

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one that you were talking about the easy targets how much better is it if I can get in and get out in one week's time or in one day's time right and I could just

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keep doing that right trying to break into a bank through like digitally trying to break in through a bank that that's very difficult to do right so if

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I'm a career criminal why would I do that I'm going to go after uh you know the people who who aren't spending this kind of money and don't have these kind of resources for sure 

Sharon: we're now at

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number one so the number one practical solution you would give to any organization when it comes to privacy and security training um 

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Danny: one of the things that I see a lot of organizations doing this and I and I really like it when I see this is they'll start

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something in October cyber security awareness month and they'll pick a theme and that for whatever reason whether we're starting in January February whatever they'll say guys we're starting

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this they bring in someone to talk to their team this is why it matters to us this is why it's important this is why you need to care this is why it matters

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to your family then they introduce the modules so there's more buying hitting somebody with the dos and don'ts before you've convinced them that they actually

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need it is just not going to work cuz then they just see it as a hassle right but if they if they believe like whoa wow like this is real right and and not

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only that it's going to affect me as you know it's going to affect me when I go home it's going to affect me with my family all of a sudden they've got the

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Buy in then you can roll out the modules but they need to care first right whereas um uh with a lot of these employees they haven't told anything

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about it they haven't heard anything about it they don't appreciate why it matters um and then they're being told by the way this is mandatory so they just see it as a hassle 

Sharon: and and boring

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Danny: Hassle and boring and and the term gamification and I I was accused of doing this myself and I've created a lot

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of these things too I think I'm sure I'm going to get some flock from people for saying this but so let's say I say to you hey Sharon like what's the worst

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most boring topic you could possibly think of so let's say you tell me Lawn Lawn Care is very boring to me Danny and I say okay um Sharon I'm mandating a

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course and it's going to be long and I know you got a busy day but you have to take this course you have to finish it by Friday right um and you're thinking

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yeah I have a pro that takes care of my lawn and you're thinking this is such a hassle to me but I say don't worry about it Sharon I've gamified it it's now a

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crossword puzzle are you suddenly going to say well that changes everything right you're still not going to care it's not like anyone's thinking oh my

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God this is such fun gamification I'm learning and not even realizing it

Sharon:  so what you're saying is you need to humanize the experience you need to get

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the Buy in by letting the employees understand maybe why it's important to them as an individual first why it's

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important to them and their families and just their personal life and then they'll be more receptive to understanding why is it also then

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important to my business life my professional life and how do I play a role in protecting the company that 

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I work for 

Danny: 100% you really need to drill down that that why why this matters to you specifically right answer that the rest

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will take care of itself cuz when you do that properly that's when they start saying to you holy cow do you got some modules I can learn more about this

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stuff like they're now coming to you right yeah

Sharon: all right I get it I I feel like um you must have worked up an appetite 

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Danny: oh well thank you very much okay this is like uh like I'm like the parrot these are the crackers right keeps me going it's 

Sharon: I've gamified this

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Danny: you've gamified 

Sharon: your favorite thing I've gamified it the more you tell me the more baby Bell you get so there you go 

Danny: I love it I love it okay very good

Sharon: all right Danny

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I'd like to play another game with you a rapid fire question session and by the way I've stopped my car so I'm not

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driving while I'm looking at my questions 

Danny: thank you for for taking consideration responsible my safy yes 

Sharon: all right are you going to eat the baby

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cheese before or

Danny: no no I'm going to I'm going to save it for see how well I do here 

Sharon: all right here we go what's worse bad coffee at a client site or a room

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without Wi-Fi

Danny:  a room without Wi-Fi definitely worse 

Sharon: give a privacy tip in five words or less 

Danny: you are at risk

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Sharon: oh damn do you really read the privacy policy Danny

Danny:  yes always 

Sharon: should passwords expire or is that a myth we cling to 

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Danny: as long as the password is 18 characters

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alpha numeric numbers symbols uh uppercase lowercase it doesn't need to expire 

Sharon: amazing what's your banking password 

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Danny: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 

Sharon: okay what uh is the first app you check in the morning 

Danny: LinkedIn

Sharon: boom you may eat your baby bell 

Danny: that's it okay

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beautiful awesome that was that was intimidating that was intimidating but yeah thank you

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Sharon: quick questions

Danny:  I'll do my best I'm nervous you're making me nervous 

Sharon: I that makes me happy okay okay putting you on

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the spot is exactly what I intend to do are you ready

Danny:  I think so 

Sharon: okay all right